Most Improved Awards, 1993-2019

"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty) 07/18/2018 at 22:00 • Filed to: BMW, Supra, Miata

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The 2019 Toyota Supra is really gunning for the 1993 Toyota Supra. Meanwhile, the 2019 Miata dwarfs its 1993 variant with greater than 50% improvements in both peak power and torque, better performance in every regard, far more variety, arguably similar driving engagement (minus EPS and DBW), while marking a near-unique vehicle despite Fiat borrowing its platform. I look forward to a bafflingly-close comparison between the JZA80/Mk IV and pseudo-Yota close in every regard but for the unflattering 26-year age difference.

Of course, the Miata is just an example; this progression from 1993 to 2019 is to be expected, and can be seen in anything from the Mustang GT going from a humble Windsor-powered Foxbody to a 460-horse coupe at home on the track and highway, or the Dodge Ram from an agricultural F-100 contemporary to a cushy hybrid cruise missile. B ut no one is asking the real question: will the Twin Power Turbo™ Supra still targa top? Because in our current age, the Miata can!

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/18/2018 at 22:14

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The only number I care about is the price. It already looks to be faster than a jza80 which is plenty fast for me.

AestheticsInMotion > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/18/2018 at 22:15

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Mazda did good (minus the clutch)

Toyota.... TBD. It all sounds great, minus the (lack of) transmission options, potential high price, unexciting engine choices , relatively low expected power vs. Price ....

Wait. That sounds a lot less great when I write it out :(

HammerheadFistpunch > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/18/2018 at 22:17

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I’d be happy enough with only a 15 hp gain over 26 years if the new model was crazy light and driver focused.  I think Toyota AND BMW are both out to lunch to think the A90/Z4 are going to do much in the market.  I guess the good news is that its a tunable engine and you will probably be able to pick one up cheap in about 5 years time.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 07/18/2018 at 22:27

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The A80 was a rapid car for sure, but the departure from in-house giant slayer to a middle-of-the-pack re-body is probably setting up for an underwhelming launch. We have yet to see and should reserve judgement, but it will be difficult to make a compelling case for a hardtop Z4 in the U.S. market at the old Supra’s pricepoint ( relative to inflation) .  

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > AestheticsInMotion 07/18/2018 at 22:37

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I still have a soft spot for the NA and wish the NC steering translated a bit better, but the ND is excellent and should be moreso with the power increase! Hopefully the Supra will not be a cash-grab rebadge, but Toyota has probably been itching to find a suitor on which to build a car to utilize the Supra name; with BMW looking to eek a profit out of the unloved Z4, it is a good candidate to partner on and wrap another body around for added volume.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > HammerheadFistpunch 07/18/2018 at 22:48

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While I still mourn the demise of NA sixes from BMW, they seem to have found a sweet spot with the turbo motors in the B58. And given that Toyota is essentially bringing back the Z-series coupe and Supra nameplate at once, they can be forgiven for a more staid release than its predecessor. I can’t imagine that the new Supra will be too much lighter than any E89 variants given that the new soft top Z will be on par with the departed DCT 35is, but more options are rarely bad ! Hell, they aren’t making a Supra crossover so this mighty morphin’ BMW cannot be cause for disappointment these days.

HammerheadFistpunch > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/18/2018 at 22:58

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its not even the turbo bit I don’t like. its just the...meh. Then again I remember when the A80 came to the scene and people were all:

45 grand for a Toyota? (about 77 grand inflation adjusted) Pass. I’ll buy a 911 or corvette.

Same thing is going to happen here.  some hardcores are going to swoop them up, same with some bad judgement collectors but mostly people are going to shop elsewhere and the A90 will be a footnote.  

AestheticsInMotion > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/18/2018 at 23:10

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Manual transmission just kills it for me. I’m no purist, I’d love a good auto for my next car, but... This is the SUPRA we’re talking about! Really, Toyota..?

And then there’s the engine choice... Okay, okay. The B58 is a perfectly fine engine but it’s... Mild. Unexciting. It’s like my NA8 engine, but minus the reliability and serviceability. Going from the overbuilt, 2jz—easily one of the most well known and beloved motors in history—to a modern BMW 6 just feels like Toyota couldn’t be bothered do put much effort into the project.

The last Supra wasn’t exactly a lightweight, but it would have been neat to see Toyota try to make this one genuinely low-weight, a la the ND, or ST twins. Idk, I just feel like this is going to be more “final gen Eclipse” and less current Z28 Camaro, in terms of improving on prior generations

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > HammerheadFistpunch 07/18/2018 at 23:38

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I totally agree with your forecast. It looks that the motor should be the highlight, given that it fits the bill for a grand tourer. Exchange rates really doomed the A80; at best, that generation was around $60,000 in today’s money, but those market conditions did not exist until 1997 when a $44,000 Corvette would make quick work of the Toyota in most scenarios. I just think that the new car should surpass the old as a value proposition if not by far in terms of capability, but the former seems pretty unlikely given much stiffer competition. Given what we know, the forthcoming Supra is all but precluded from being as significant as its predecessor barring the giant mystery that Toyota is guarding includes a technical ace up its sleeve to deliver performance far surpassing that of its sister car. For some perspective, the old car took 4.6 to 60 and less than 120 ft from 60, passed the 1/4 mile near 13-flat, held to .98g on the skidpad, and did all of this in relative comfort. The 6 cylinder should not have to exceed A80 performance by too much pending a ~$60k price tag. Considering safety and emissions requirements and technological advancement alike, I think that exceeding these figures without much additional cost is a reasonable expectation.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/18/2018 at 23:57

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I can’t speak for US market. but I think it will sell well here in Aus, price point dependent. There’s still a bit of a mid-pack performance vacuum here that only the Mustang and to some extent the Stinger GT is filling.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > AestheticsInMotion 07/19/2018 at 02:29

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Oh boy, you have just put the image of a Supra Cross in my head and it’s a frightening thought ! I hear you, this really does cross me a s reminiscent of the final Eclipse based on what we know. At worst, a badge fueled phone -in using an un- extraordinary parts bin on whatever platform works. The old Supra was the best of all worlds as Toyota did not compromise anywhere and built both a great car and dominating performer as a result.

I just don’t see any promising weight loss potential for the Supra   given that the platform mate Z4 failed to lose weight by reverting to a soft top, and the problem is compounded by the fact that it   will not gain power vs. the last model. Just think, 26 years before the versatile 320hp Mk IV Supra hit the streets, the high-tech 2000GT supercar had just debuted—for far more than any contemporary E-Type, L88 Corvette, or 911 S — with 150 hp! Af ter the same length of time following the debut of the fourth Supra, we are scrounging for incremental, immeasurable, and imperceptible improvements from the successor that does not even stand on its own merit.

ihm96 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/19/2018 at 10:25

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The new Z’s are probably gonna be cool but i prefer the older z3s and the z8 to any of the more recent ones. I drove a 2017 530i  recently though and I have to say I much prefer my 1995 530i. The e34 to me was probably the peak of the 5 series, although id ideally love to someday get an e28

RT > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 07/19/2018 at 21:41

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Game set.

TheYearIs1990 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 08/20/2018 at 22:01

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Let’s go three years further back .